|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2931
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 13:42:54 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously, you probably misrepresented that study in every way possible. I don't even address your points since I start to believe that you are just a troll who deliberately lies to get a reaction.
If you are not a troll then you should probably watch the video once again and correct your post.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3245
|
Posted - 2016.12.06 20:57:16 -
[2] - Quote
Corewin wrote:I'm late to the party here, but I have a question for those supporting ganking.
I don't have an issue with ganking in general, but do you seriously think that it isn't laughably easy to carry out / maintain currently? I'm honestly curious if I'm missing some sort of hidden cost that balances out the risk vs reward factors I hear brought up so much by those defending it. Compared to other activities in Highsec like mission running, mining or freighting stuff around how much is the ISK/h and risk/reward out of wack? Show us some numbers please
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3245
|
Posted - 2016.12.06 22:48:49 -
[3] - Quote
Corewin wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote: Compared to other activities in Highsec like mission running, mining or freighting stuff around how much is the ISK/h and risk/reward out of wack? Show us some numbers please
It's High Sec. The implicit safety is gleaned directly from it's name. The balancing factor for High Sec based income strategies is to simply modify the returns those players get by remaining there and not venturing out. Miner's enjoying too much reward vs the limited risk they face? Cut back on their yield. Adjust their cycles. Make materials harder to get in low risk areas. Etc Mission runners? Cut back on bounty returns. Make mission agents pay out less. Yes, they already have almost perfect safety compared to low and null and their rewards should be lowered.
Now if we look at the gankers which are at an extreme disadvantage compared to other PvP players in null and low because they face not only the other players defences but an invincible, all knowing, all powerfull police force which will grant them only a few seconds before vaporising their ships. So here the equation is obviously reversed and if you look at the fact that ganking is absolutely not profitable except for the rare Freighters which has too much ISK in his belly, ganking is clearly in need of a buff from a risk/reward point of view.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3257
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:50:21 -
[4] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:I've done my fair share of ganking with miniluv and there's no risk on the gankers end. Most of the gankers I know are stinking rich from it. You lose some cheap ships and get a bad sec status, that's all. Miniluv ganks for profit and they only target valuable ships. Yet if you actually crunch the numbers and account for the people involved in a gank and the amount of time it takes to find such a valuable target, the ISK/h is extremely lower compared to a miner/mission runner whatever, not even accounting for security status loss and how easy it is for outsiders to screw with the gank and deny the loot.
The amount of logistics, preparation, scouting and waiting that goes into the whole gank has to be accounted for if you want to make an argument for how out of whack risk/reward in ganking is.
Tell me, why are all the ISK/h optimizers running missions and incursions if the easy and risk free ISK is in ganking?
Incidentally the same people who whine about how rich we get because we gank and want to nerf (non existing) profits are the same people who will ask for a ban of ganks who are not for profit because the consider it griefing and "just for tears".
I gank for 3 years or so now and my profits come not from ganking, which is a ISK sink for me, it comes from people making mistakes after the gank because they get angry.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3257
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:57:31 -
[5] - Quote
Corewin wrote:I may have been out of the game for a few years, but Mining Barges/Industrials/Freighters have not suddenly become PVP capable. High Sec ganking is purely to find victims that have as little means as possible to defend themselves, at minimal cost/danger and maximum gain because they determine every aspect of how an encounter will start and end. Yes they have. A proper fitted Skiff has the tank, speed and damage capabilities of a HAC and is able to mine at the same time. It takes a seriously large fleet to take one of this out in a suicide gank where you even lose much more ISK on the ganker side than the gankee. We are not even talking about ANY REWARD here except a killmail for which you sacrificed more ISK than it is worth.
The miner got all the tools to protect themselves and more and still people cry for more safety.
And you have now shown multiple times that you have absolutely no clue and just argue with your gut feelings.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3682
|
Posted - 2017.03.06 15:59:33 -
[6] - Quote
Darth Magic wrote:The video refers to an analysis of players under 15 days old. Enough said, your point is garbage. That's not where the ganking metagame is even played. You somehow think there is a problem with people not being save in the early stages of gameplay. Takos showed you an analysis which basically concludes that people who get blown up are more likely to join. This is very relevant.
I'm not sure why people like you think isolating players for weeks or months from the real game is somehow something a real new player is looking for. Most of them probably get drawn to EVE because the hear about those epic universe shaping battles and not because they think it's an awesome game to mine in perfect safety. So why are you trying to keep them out of the real game?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3685
|
Posted - 2017.03.07 09:47:30 -
[7] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Its a given it shouldn't be allowed at the price its allowed today. Way to easy and risk free. Not allowed at all? It should be but it should be a gamble and the empty freighter killing were seeing everyday should be a rarity only for the very rich. Orchestrating a successful freighter gank has a lot more complexity than just simple F1 smashing when descending on the target. There are Logistics, people management, ship distribution, scouting, scanning, warp-in positioning, bumping, etc. And that does not even involve the additional steps and precautions and adjustments you have to take if AG tries to interfere.
To simply state "ganking is easy and should be more complicated/expensive" is not an argument for anything. It is a cheap attempt to misrepresent a game mechanic in order to make some equally silly "fix" seam valid.
There are tons of really simple game mechanics like mining in this game which deserve a lot more attention if you care to make ISK acquiring harder.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3721
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 06:50:31 -
[8] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The verifiable data (zkill) shows the above to be bullshite. The majority of ganks of freighters appear to be empty or near empty. The weapon of choice (stealth bombers) often costing more than the empty or near empty freighter. Not many have plastic wrap.
Disagree go check zkiill.
Lol ganking a freighter is so easy some are multiboxing it. Again go check zkill but I'm sure you already know this.
There are maybe one or two guys in the entire game who are even able to multibox large numbers of gank chars to kill Freighters. To call something easy just because one guy is doing it successfully is just blatant trolling and has nothing to do with a real argument.
They are also not the ones who kill empty Freighters as you can see quite clearly on zkill. Kusion as an example (there isn't probably any other anyway) almost exclusively hits valuable ships.
The only reason why empty freighters are killed are: - Big events like Burn Jita where people just gank everything for entertainment - Big fleets with many people where you need to provide content to keep fleet cohesion
Those are very good reasons and unavoidable once you realise that EVE is actually played by people and they are here for entertainment. 20 people will not sit in station for hours just to wait for that one big 20bil ISK fish.
Infinity Ziona wrote: Mining / missioning takes actual risk. They undock in valuable ships at least on their mains and have to deal with the constant threat of 40 year old preteens who appear to think they're IRL actual space pirates and devs who have no idea how to manage the game or decipher pie charts - yeah that big slice with 90% on it that's your potential PvE subscriber base. The 9% is PvP and the 1% or less are wan... Gankers
Highsec is so safe it probably takes less time to research how to make your chosen profession gankproof than it took you to write this troll post. CCP provided all the tools to make mining, missioning and hauling so save you are almost completely untouchable. A good PvE player has absolutely nothing to fear from a ganker, since he can completely avoid them with some simple steps which are pretty obvious and well known.
The only people who get ganked are people who are foolish and imprudent and don't invest any effort at all to protect their ships or belongings. It is not CCPs job or in any interest of the game to protect people who are simply just bad at the game especially since this is a multiplayer sandbox which even promotes and encourages piracy gameplay.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3723
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 07:43:36 -
[9] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:So according to you its both extremely hard to set up a gank and only foolish over loaders of cargo get ganked AND at the same time gankers gank empty freighters out of boredom. Also in LaLaLand single pilots multibox freighter ganks not because its easy but because they are amazing and your fleets with 15 to 80 players depending on sec status still find it extremely taxing.
There are only a couple of people who are even able to multibox ganks on the level that you are able to gank freighters. Also that multiboxing has limits and even Kusion can't gank properly tanked freighters, you need a fleet of people.
It's not really an argument to just call it "easy" just because "someone" is able to do it. Especially if it is pretty obvious that only a handful of player in the entire game is able to do it at all while for everyone else it is completely out of reach.
The reason why you do it anyway is quite clear. It is well known that you are in favour of completely removing non-consensual PvP from Highsec and you somehow think to label the profession as easy without showing any evidence will convince someone it is in need of more nerfs.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Time to get back to reality. Anything that can be multiboxed by a single player is trivial for a fleet.
Fleet PvP and solo PvP are two completely different things. The game mechanics are the same, but the real challenge of a fleet is not the game mechanics or the difficulty of a certain job, but the people skills of the FC which has to hold it all together and coordinate the other players. This is far from trivial and only a hand full of people are really good at it.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3787
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 08:03:33 -
[10] - Quote
Sivar Ahishatsu wrote: I say this maybe so, I would not dispute the factual statistic, but I am disputing the interpretation of them. The people who stay after being ganked did so because the gank gave them anew area to explore of the game many of then most probably wanted to learn how to fight themselves and it was a change of pace and added more time to their enjoyment. But the people who were not ganked and quit did not leave because they did not get ganked, they left because the game is boring in HIGH sec in the long run if you do not wish to PvP...
...
Unfortunately, the vocal mob of the forums is of the mindset that everyone should PvP and any other opinion gets bombarded and burred alive with rhetoric of what they think and want the game should be like. All the while new players keep on quiting.
I'm sorry to say, but you just post the same flawed ideas over and over without actually considering the counter arguments to your rather flawed proposals. It was mentioned multiple times in multiple threads that expanding Highsec will literally do nothing since it already offers enough space and systems which are completely empty if you are looking for a corner where you don't have to compete with too many people.
If you are thinking that the problem is the PvE content then why are you not asking for more PvE content? In the last years CCP actually started to expand on that and it would not surprise me if they add more interesting content in the future for people who like to shoot NPC etc. This can be added to the Highsec as it is, I don't see why this should be a problem.
The problem most people have with your approach is that you literally try to delete whole parts of the game and the whole core concept that you are not 100% save everywhere. This has nothing to do with the availability of PvE content. Those things are completely unrelated.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
|
|
|
|